Ron Wyatt's Last Interview - June 1999
In June of 1999, the late Bill Fry, former president of Anchorstone International interviewed Ron Wyatt by phone concerning his experiences in the Ark of the Covenant chamber. At the time, Ron was just weeks away from his death in August of 1999. For a Christian staring death in the face, that was not a time for lying about sacred things, and would have been the perfect opportunity for Ron Wyatt to publicly confess to any untruths he might have told during his life. But as you can read below he did not, and in fact reiterated and backed up everything he had said during his life regarding his discovery of the ark of the covenant. The bold underlined emphasis in the middle of the interview is mine.
Audio Recording of Ron Wyatt's Last Interview
Transcript of the Interview
Bill Fry: Okay, the recorderís on right now, so you can go ahead and just, just basically tell me what happened.
Ron Wyatt: Oh, Okay. Well, on the excavation there, that, you know, for the Ark of the Covenant, primarily I was interested in just the Ark of the Covenant. However, when I did the excavation down the cliff face, I ran into cut-outs and we ran into crossholes, and the bottom of this ancient quarry that showed that this was a crucifixion and execution spot. The Romans crucified people there, of course. The Jews, because of some of their special arrangements with the Romans, they basically stoned people there and beat them as examples, thatís what took place there. Anyway, once we found that place, I knew that, well basically, that I needed to get inside that escarpment, because there were several indications that it was just a system of tunnels and chambers, and that I needed to, basically, just go chamber by chamber, tunnel by tunnel, and whatever, systematically go through there, until I found the Ark of the Covenant, or until I didnít find it. And so, anyway, we found it on January 6th, 1982 at approximately 2 oíclock in the afternoon. And so, when I found it, it was in a situation that I had not anticipated or expected, that was that it was in a chamber that was totally filled with what appeared to be debris. And what turned out to be a bunch of materials of furnishings of the first temple, covered first by animal skins, then that covered by boards, and then these covered by stone, just whatever they could get their hands on, looked like. It looked like it had been done in a hurry, looked like they just grabbed everything, whatever they could get to fill the place, and I was still a little fuzzy on why that would be done, but I donít see that I need to know everything. When God does something I just know itís done perfectly, so. On the occasion of my fourth visit into the area, I was gonna make another attempt at getting some video footage.
Bill Fry: Get some what?
Ron Wyatt: I was going to make an attempt to get some video footage.
Ron Wyatt: Up to that time I had not had any success with any kind of reproduction attempt that I made that included Polaroid cameras, 35 mm cameras, a VHS camera, video system. So anyway, I went into the chamber and lowered myself in there, and of course, there, the thing that became apparent immediately was that the place was totally cleaned. Somebody had done what I had decided that I was going to have to do, and that was to clean every, haul the debris and everything out. And I guess I should say a couple of words here, that the Ark of the Covenant was not covered in all this debris like everything else. It was in a separate container, within walls, a stone box. And this extended from the floor, which I didnít know at the time, the dimensions or whatever, but anyway the box extended up to within approximately three inches of the ceiling.
Bill Fry: Was it sitting on top of something else?
Ron Wyatt: Well, the fact of the matter was, Bill, that I never did get in there and measure everything, and so I really donít know.
Bill Fry: Okay.
Ron Wyatt: Looking back on that, I would have had to have been there when the cleanup took place in order to know all of that, and I simply was not there. But anyway, the Ark of the Covenant, the mercy seat, was set in a manner under the crack that came down, that extended down from the crucifixion site above, so that the blood went on the top of the mercy seat, and then, anyway when it was all cleaned up and situated, positioned, it still appeared to be in that same position even though it was no longer in the box. And there are several things that are rather remarkable about what had happened there: the place was cleaned up, and the Ark of the Covenant was sitting against the wall at the east end of the cave, and the cave is not perfectly oriented east, west, north, or south, itís just on the eastern end, basically, of that. Behind this is this crystalline wall that emits the colors of the rainbow.
Bill Fry: This is the wall behind the ark?
Ron Wyatt: Thatís correct. Itís a vertical, vertical wall.
Bill Fry: Now the ark was facing you if you were standing looking at it, is that correct?
Ron Wyatt: Yes, that is correct, at that point in time. And I got a phone call on this that Iíll share which was kind of unusual, itís one of those things that made me decide to talk about it, to say something about it. And that is, that I got a phone call from this fellow, and he says, ďRon,Ē he says, ďwould you describe what the Ark of the Covenant, what it looked like, to me? And I said, ďWell, I donít do that.Ē And I have a Ö you know, I just havenít done that. And so, anyway, I said, ďWhy do you ask?Ē and he seemed a little distressed with the whole thing, you know, and he said, ďWell, I had a dream.Ē And I donít remember if it was the night before I was talking to him, or that day, or anyway, it hadnít been too long since he had this dream, and he said, ďIíve been praying since I heard about the Ark of the Covenant, that the Lord would let me see what it looked like, I just felt a real burden to see what it looked like,Ē and he said, ďI had this dream, and I was in this chamber in this dream,Ē and he said, ďThe Ark of the Covenant was right there in front of me.Ē Basically, and he said, ďHowever, the wall behind the Ark of the Covenant,Ē and he described it perfectly, you know.
Bill Fry: Like what youíd seen.
Ron Wyatt: Right. And he said, ďI got so distracted by the colors and all the rest of this rainbow, that I did not look and zero in on the Ark of the Covenant.Ē And he said, ďThe dream went away without my having a good look at the Ark of the Covenant.Ē So that was a bit of a surprise, and an (observant?) one, I might add, that indicates that God, you know, wanted people to, didnít mind people having a description of it, at least, and at least this one fellow. He didnít seem any more unusual or different than anyone else, and there were several other people that have asked. And he seemed to be an honest guy and all of that, and I donít think he could have made that description without having seen it, thereís no way it could have happened. So, anyway, I at this point said, ďWell, just be grateful that you got to see inside the chamber, because Iíll verify thatís what it looks like.Ē But then I said, ďI guess that I probably ought to do something to give a general idea of what the Ark of the Covenant looked like. So at the time I decided to get Jim Pinkoski to work me up some (drawings), you know? And so, anyway, back to the experiences, when I got in there, the light, the room has its own light, and I made that inference that it didnít happen until I had gotten inside the chamber and was just standing on the floor of the chamber. I did all my getting in the dark, so when the thingís kind of lighted up, I was really shocked by what I saw, that is the place had been cleaned out, and that there were four people in there. And so basically, I was going to ask, ďWhat are you doing here?Ē because Iím the only one I knew of that had permission or the right to be in there, and at that point, I became aware that my physical condition was altered so that I knew I was in the presence of angels, you know, that these were not just people, because I couldnít breathe, I couldnít move, I couldnít talk, couldnít do anything. And so, anyway, at that point, just basically kept in mind that I was very, veryÖ scorned? By the whole thing. So the one angel talked to me and briefly said that they been watching over the Ark of the Covenant since Moses had put the tables of stone in there, and that God wanted everyone to see this at a particular time. And so, anyway, he told me to set up my, um
Bill Fry: Your video camera?
Ron Wyatt: yeah, to set that up on a tripod, and which I set up primarily because it had been kind of drummed into my head that ďyou wouldíve got a better picture if you used a tripod.Ē So anyway, I set this all up and aimed at the Ark of the Covenant. At that point, I turned it on and went on to the angels went and took the corners of each of the ark, of the mercy seat, and lifted it, and the one angel that talked with me said, ďGet the tables of stone out of the Ark of the Covenant.Ē So I went over and leaned down, and took them out.
Bill Fry: Ron, could you speak up? Iím having just a little bit of trouble hearing you.
Ron Wyatt: Iím sorry. Yeah, I leaned in and picked the tables of stone and backed away, and they lowered the mercy seat back into position. And then I just stood there with the tables of stone, and the angel came and got them, and took them from my hands, and put them on a stone shelf, or ledge, whatever.
Bill Fry: Right there next to the wall?
Ron Wyatt: Right, you know its part of the wall right near the exit.
Bill Fry: The original exit?
Ron Wyatt: Yeah.
Bill Fry: So that would be, I guess, on the south side.
Ron Wyatt: Uh huh.
Bill Fry: Okay.
Ron Wyatt: The south side. And so, anyway, the...
Bill Fry: Now let me ask you a question here.
Ron Wyatt: Okay.
Bill Fry: Cause when you told me this before, you know, you told me you took the tables of stone out, and then the angel told you something about the tables of stone?
Ron Wyatt: Yeah, he told me that it had to do with when these were to be shown to the world.
Bill Fry: Right.
Ron Wyatt: Two things were stated; one that if I was faithful I would have the privilege of sharing this, and the second was that when the mark of the beast law was in force, that shortly after that, was when this would take place.
Bill Fry: Okay.
Ron Wyatt: And there is a little bit of conundrum: it wasnít stated as the mark of the beast law, it was stated, ďwhen the Sunday law,Ē but I tell people, and I think itís wiser to tell people that, since itís not lying or deceiving, is that when the mark of the beast law is in force.
Bill Fry: Right. But the angel said ďSunday lawĒ.
Ron Wyatt: Thatís right.
Bill Fry: Okay. Well, Iíll certainly do it that way.
Ron Wyatt: Okay. And so...
Bill Fry: Now, if I remember correctly, at that point you said, I donít, you didnít know what to do with the tables of stone, because you were holding them.
Ron Wyatt: Well I didnít, what the thing I didnít know what to do with was later, was after I had taken the video back to my room and checked it to make sure that I had the you know, video.
Bill Fry: Yeah.
Ron Wyatt: I didnít know what to do with that. So I went back to the cave to ask the angel what I should do with that, and he said I should put it on the tables of stone.
Bill Fry: Right on the shelf.
Ron Wyatt: Yeah, and on top of the tables of stone, they were both there.
Bill Fry: And as far as you know, thatís where they are today.
Ron Wyatt: Thatís right, as far as I know.
Bill Fry: Okay. Now, did the angel indicate any kind of sign that you would be given other than the mark of the beast law?
Ron Wyatt: Uh, no.
Bill Fry: Okay. Okay, I kind of got you off track, okay, after he took the tables of stone and put them on the niche near the original exit, I kind of interrupted you there. What happened after that?
Ron Wyatt: At that point I left through the old entrance.
Bill Fry: The original entrance.
Ron Wyatt: Right.
Bill Fry: And was that the first time you had been through it?
Ron Wyatt: That was the first time I had been through it.
Bill Fry: So thatís how you ended up finding that.
Ron Wyatt: Uh huh.
Bill Fry: Okay, they apparently had cleaned that out, too.
Ron Wyatt: Well, it had, they had cleaned that one out, yeah. I had done some work prior to this, but my work, uh, apparently, well, just to be perfectly honest, this whole system, if they want you to see and get through, itís easy, you know, quick and easy. And if they donít, you couldnít find it to save your life, or I couldnít.
Bill Fry: Oh really?
Ron Wyatt: Yeah.
Bill Fry: So itís not just as simple as walking through a tunnel?
Ron Wyatt: No, Itís not. And I know that sounds a little science fictionish, but...
Bill Fry: Well, thatís the nature of the caves and tunnels, if youíve been in them before.
Ron Wyatt: Itís also the nature of if God wants you to see something or not.
Bill Fry: Exactly.
Ron Wyatt: And so, as far as I know, Iím the only one that has been in there, but Iím not there all the time, so I really donít know about this. But I donít know for a fact that nobody else has been in there.
Bill Fry: Right.
Ron Wyatt: Alright, now I do not want to get into details on that.
Bill Fry: Okay.
Ron Wyatt: For the simple reason that, and I think you probably know this, that the Bishop of the Anglican Church, who is basically the head of the Garden Tomb died within a month of telling me that I couldnít excavate out there anymore.
Bill Fry: And that was shortly after Reverend White retired.
Ron Wyatt: Um, yeah. And so, anyway, thereís a whole bunch of people that, you know I didnít say that, Iíve never said that he died because of that to anybody, I didnít verbalize it.
Bill Fry: It was just a matter of fact.
Ron Wyatt: Iíve verbalized that there have been people that have died, and theyíve put two and two together because, you know, working there, they were giving orders to me not to be able to do anything more, and God rescinded that, they all died, so of course, they put all that together.
Bill Fry: I donít know that itís really necessary to address that aspect of it, because nobodyís asking about that part.
Ron Wyatt: I think we ought to just skip that.
Bill Fry: The only other thing that would relate to anything happening in the chamber and that type of thing is back when those six people got killed trying to get in there to the ark and move it.
Ron Wyatt: Yeah, and this is why I saw I had rather not.
Bill Fry: Okay. Because I know you told me that story, but, okay, thatís fine if you donít want to get into that.
Ron Wyatt: Well, the situation is that if we get on the page, web page, with a bunch of stuff, at some point some of the people that are keeping an eye on me, and they might not like the direction Iím taking or something. So I figure that I would just lump it into a statement that there have been those that have lost their lives, directly or indirectly, and just let it go at that.
Bill Fry: Okay. Can I just ask you one thing on a personal note, and this wonít be any part of what weíre talking about doing here, who was it that initiated those men going in there trying to move that thing, do you know?
Ron Wyatt: I didnít ask.
Bill Fry: Okay.
Ron Wyatt: The idea was that itís occupied territory, they wanted to get it into unoccupied territory, and ordinarily, Iím all for that. Because I sure donít want Yasser Arafat ending up with it.
Bill Fry: Right.
Ron Wyatt: But I know he isnít gonna.
Bill Fry: Right, itís not really an issue.
Ron Wyatt: Right, but that was what I was given to be the reason, but as to who made that decision, well you know, I didnít ask.
Bill Fry: Right. Are the golden poles still either on or around the ark?
Ron Wyatt: Well, they are not in their slots anymore.
Bill Fry: But they are in the chamber?
Ron Wyatt: Right. They are in the chamber. The impression I got, or I may have gotten is, well, I came out of there with, I think, a lot more information in my head than was verbalized by the angel. I donít know if that makes any sense to you or not.
Bill Fry: Yeah, I think so.
Ron Wyatt: And so the bottom line is that I think the Ark of the Covenant is fulfilling its final destiny and that is to prove to the entire universe that Godís Son actually gave His life, you know, to redeem the human family. And that proof will stay throughout eternity.
Bill Fry: Okay, Anything else you want to add?
Ron Wyatt: I think thatís about it, Bill.
Bill Fry: Okay. Ron I appreciate it.
Ron Wyatt: I appreciate you looking after these things, because you know, I have to have this pain medicine, and it grogs me a bitÖ and itís nice to have someone that can help me get these things across so that they wonít be misstated or whatever.
Bill Fry: You know weíll do everything we can. Uh, listen, Iím probably not going to get a chance to work on this until after I get back from the meeting in New Orleans.
Ron Wyatt: Oh, okay.
Bill Fry: Because Iím leaving tomorrow, and Iíve still got some things to do around here relative to getting ready for Sabbath and for the trip. So I probably wonít get back to work on it until early next week. But Iíll be back in touch with you and e-mail you a copy before we post anything.
Ron Wyatt: Okay, thatíll be great.
Bill Fry: If you would, and Iíve already talked to Mary Nell about this, please pray for me in this meeting, because I really think the Lordís presenting opportunity here. Thereís going to be a large number of people there.
Ron Wyatt: Okay, alright, we sure will.
Bill Fry: Thanks so much, Ron, and take care, and know that I and many, many others are still praying for you.
Ron Wyatt: I appreciate that very kindly, I really do, and I can tell that thatís happening. And I just want you to know I appreciate you, Bill.
Bill Fry: Thank you, Ron, and we appreciate and love you. Let me ask you before I go, did you get that newspaper with Ross just exactly the way you wanted it?
Ron Wyatt: Well, we got it pretty close. Mary Nell learned pretty well how to do what he does. And we got it quite close, or closer, with just a few little typos, and Iím going over that sheet by sheet. So we were thinking about maybe getting some copies printed up for handing out down at the meeting.
Bill Fry: Oh, no, thereís not time to do that now. But Iím looking down the road a bit.
Ron Wyatt: Well, it shouldnít be very long. We should be by the end of next week, have it ready to be printed, I guess.
Bill Fry: Oh, really? That quick?
Ron Wyatt: I think so.
Bill Fry: That would be great, it would be great. Okay, well, Ron, weíre gonna let you know, Ďcause I know youíre tired. If thereís anything I can do for you, or Mary Nell, give me a call, and weíll do what we can.
Ron Wyatt: Well, weíre more or less getting things into a routine. Things keep changing a little bit, anyway, and learning to live with all of this. Well, okey dokey, thanks Bill.
Bill Fry: Okay, God bless, bye bye.